The Sevenwaters Trilogy

[SwiftSnowmane]

This is the place to be if you love Sorcha, Red, Bran, Liadan, Johnny, Fainne, Darragh, and any of the wonderfully developed characters of The Sevenwaters Trilogy by Juliet Marillier.

From her official site: Juliet Marillier is the Australian author of the award-winning Sevenwaters Trilogy, a historical fantasy series set in ninth century Ireland" (And also the novel Wolfskin, first book in the Saga of the Light Isles, set in 8th century Scotland)

I love this trilogy so much! The characters and places utterly come to life before me while I read these books. I have literally fallen in love with them. The story itself is so beautiful and moving, it leaves me in tears.

Has anyone read any of these beautiful stories? Please discuss them if you have! I had a Sevenwaters Thread at the old Imladris, but it never really got off the ground.

[SwiftSnowmane]

I just thought I'd post all the various (and beautiful) book covers:

The Australian cover art:







Here is the American cover art for the Sevenwaters books:

[SwiftSnowmane]

The UK covers:








Even the cover art makes me cry--I'm such a sap!

[Misty]

Right!!! Here I am, I´m bubbling over with things to say about the trilogy...funny thing is, I was introduced to the German translation of Daughter of the Forrest by a friend who knows I love those kinds of books...she double-bought it and sent it me.
The German books all have the American covers, btw.
I read it and was enthralled. In the German Version (GV) Red ´s called Der Rote, which does NOT sound nearly as swoonworthy as "Red" - that sounds so cute...and HE is the male character in all the books I adore to pieces. He´s the one....*pulls herself together* He just shows such strength and such trust in Sorcha.. and I was near to bawling when he came for her to Sevenwaters!! I mean, it´s mostly the other way round----women leave their places to follow the man....CUTE! TOTALLY MOVING!!!!
Then I wanted to read the second part, which I hadn´t known existed at all till my mum, whom I´d lent the first volume, held it triumphantly under my nose. She refused to let me read it before she´d finished it - understandably - so I bought it in English, since anyway I preferred the original....and again I don´t think “Hauptmann” matches the word “Chief” in the least.
The second part is I think my fave...though no, I can´t say. They´re all great. But it had me totally fall in love with Liadan. Bran too is very impressive, but Liadan is so tough and strong and great, to be like her is what I strive for. I think it´s so cool the way she acts in the encampment....never shows fear, actually she isn´t really afraid at all....never intimidated, quickwitted, brave, just GREAT! And her and Bran´s relationship´s left me spellbound (I could say more on that...but I´ll leave it till later ).
My silent love in the background, btw, in ALL the books, is Finbar.
I can´t really believe he dies in the end!
And then I ordered the third part and instantly fell in love with that too. That´s the book that impressed me most, I think, and I could totally identify with Fainne, although sometimes I found it hard to believe the way she STILL does Lady Oonagh will although she must know now that her grandmother will always threaten her and she simply MUST!!! stand up to her...

I LOVE books about magic, and in COTP it´s really, really greatly described.
It´s interesting to compare the way magic is exercised in several fantasy books:
Other books I love are Otfried Preussler´s “Krabat” (translated “The Satanic Mill” by Anthea Bell), the “Song of the Lioness books” and Monica Furlong´s “Wise Child” and “Juniper”. And of course Marion Zimmer Bradley...They´re all great in their own way, but I think Juliet Marillier´s the best.
(Funnily, I went to see a kid´s movie on a small witch while I was still reading COTP and was so impressed by the truthful description of magic exercising – and was really horrifief when in that movie all the witches did was a silly two-verse rhyme – dunno if you speak German? Anyway those went like “Ene mene Mai, flieg los, Kartoffelbrei! Hex-hex!” Generations of kids grow up with this crap! Argh!)

The transformation into the moth left me breathless!!! And that night on Darragh´s chest in the form of the dove is so spellbinding!!
Darragh, by the way, is too brotherly for my liking, although of course he´s a great character, no doubt. But I love Bran´s intensity and Iubdan´s – I-don´t-know-what –to-call-it more.
I loathed and hated Eamonn so much in the 2nd volume!!!! And then astonishingly I found I couldn´t hate him in the 3rd part because all the time I read it I imagined him as an Alan Rickman-like character. I literally heard Alan Rickman speak the lines, no clue whether that´s just because he played EAMON de Valera in “Michael Collins” or because I imagined Eamonn like a mixture of the Sheriff of Nottingham & Colonel Brandon.....
Ok I´ll stop for the time being.
*bows gracefully * Swifty, your turn!

[Misty]

*notices Swifty is standing as if rooted to the spot, obviously adream of Bran, Darragh and Red, and nudges her gently and then goes in a louder whisper*
Swifty?



Back again?

[SwiftSnowmane]

*Wakes up suddenly from a stupor, wiping drool off her chin...*

Oops, sorry, Misty! I just got a bit lost in my dreams, so to speak.

But, OMG! I agree with just about everything you said! After each book, I was totally in love with the main characters. While I agree that I can't pick a favorite, I must say that Bran and Liadan's story was so captivating and moving for me. I can't explain it! I love Sorcha and Red so much as well....he is so wonderful! I sob whenever I read Sorcha's death in Son of the Shadows, I just feel so bad for him.
( Your right though, 'Red' sounds much better than the German translation. Same with 'Chief' too. ) Another reason SoS captivates me so much is because I love the idea of the fianna, the Painted Men. They are so interesting. I cry when Evan dies, I cry when she has to slit Dog's throat. But I also really love how the stories Liadan tells when she is with them are parallel to the struggles she faces for Bran later on.

I also find it fascinating how the title of SoS can be taken many different ways. For instance, 'the son of the shadows' can be either of the three young men in the book. It could be Ciaran because he even names himself that when telling Liadan about his mother. He feels that he cannot escape the path of evil (of shadow) set out for him by his mother.

And then of course, it applies to Bran, who physically is half in the shadows with his raven tatoos. Also he muct constantly battle with the dreams of his shadowed childhood that threaten to overwhelm him. (I personally feel that he is the 'real' son of the shadows as he is the main male protagonist in the book.)

However, one could say that Eamonn is also a son of the shadows. He becomes so overwhelmed by his jealousy and hate for the Painted Man, that he turns to a path of 'shadow.' He can never get over his anger at himself, and his anger at Liadan for choosing Bran over him.

These are just my interpretations of these characters. In each of their own ways, they are sons of shadow.

I know exactly what you mean about hating Eamonn in the SoS. I really did hate him, especially after what he did to Gull.
I have not seen that movie with Alan Rickman, ut as you said, in CotP he is such a troubled, almost pathetic character, that I almost felt sorry for him. And then of course he 'redeems' himself somewhat by saving Fainne's life, and dying for her. In his own twisted way, by doing that he helped to save the Islands after all.

I too was secretly in love with Finbar from the beginning of the first book, all the way up to his tragic death. He also dies to save the life of Johnny. *sobs* SO touching. And right before he dies, the swan's wing disappears and his arm is back to normal again. *sobs some more*

*blows her nose and gets back on topic*

[SwiftSnowmane]

So anway.... I know what you mean about Darragh being "brotherly." Red is obviously"heroic" in that he vows to protect Sorcha from those who conspire against her. Bran is the 'anti-hero' so to speak. But Darragh is heroic too, in a way. He selflessly follows Fainne, trying to protect her. Not from anyone or anything (he CAN'T protect her from Oonah), but from herself. He sees the good in her, he helps her see it too. He represents the good in her, like her 'other half' or something.
Some people might not like CotP as much as the first two, because Fainne is hard to like. She is not inherently good, as are Liadan and Sorcha. She has a very evil side to her, just like all of us do. She has the capacity to hurt people she loves. To me, Darragh is the inherently good character that balances Fainne.

Again, just my own interepretations. But if you want to know, I actually emailed Juliet Marillier after I first finished the series int he spring, and she said I was spot on with my analysis of Darragh. She is really cool! She'll write back to you at least once if you email her.

Wow! I have so much more to say, but I'll let you have another turn first, Misty.

*Swoons for Red, Bran, Darragh, Johnny, and Finbar*

(I don't usually go for guys with shaved heads, but for Bran I can DEFINATELY make and exception!! )

[Misty]

Hmm...beautifully spoken, Swifty!
That´s quite cool about Juliet Marillier. She does seem to be the friendly type, from her writing style.
You haven´t seen Robin Hood with Kevin Costner NOR Sense and Sensibility, Swifty??? Now THAT sets me thinking indeed...
About that Fainne is hard to like: Personally, I don´t think so at all. She is practically me when I was a teenie. I mean, not that I had those great turmoils and choices of good and evil and power etc, but I wondered as much and was a lot more like her than like Sorcha or Liadan, when growing up. I love it how she finds her way, though sometimes it´s really hard to bear the wrong choices she makes!!!
I guess Red´s my fave because he has no dark history really, he´s just himself and the typical man (typical in these stories, I mean, I desperately miss those types of men IRL): protective, understanding, kind, patient, loyal to his friends, assertive, able to take responsibility...*. swoon*
Correct about your analysis with the sons of the shadow. The story of Ciaran and Niamh is so tragic too!!! I mean, what WAS Conor thinking of in taking an untried young druid to Sevenwaters before Niamh, so pretty and all?
Always when I read those kind of books I swoon for the possibilities of film adapting them, too. All three would make great films, don´t you think?? Just thinking of all the Industrial light and magic – jobs for CotP (all the water and fire and magic)
makes my head swim. Sigh. The casting of course wouldn´t be easy.
*grins to herself *
Hmmm....this is interesting...pity Viggo isn´t younger, I´d like to cast him as Bran....
And Orli, if he acted really well, might make a formidable Red....
And Darragh – I could imagine Lijah playing him...
And then I´d like to be cast as Sorcha, Liadan AND Fainne.
Though it´s really scary what can be done to novels if they aren´t adapted correctly; look at the Mists of Avalon...all the horrid alterations and the silly costumes, and the book´s so great!!!
I too have more to say , but now I´m almost ,
so I let you have your say !

[SwiftSnowmane]

I shouldn't have said that Fainne was hard to like, but that she was harder to like than Sorcha and Liadan. I only meant that some people found her point of view more difficult to enjoy. I personally enjoyed it, but I don't think my younger sister liked CotP as much as the first two. But then again, my friend LOVED the third book. He is the one who introduced me to LotR in the first place, and started my obsession. So I thought it only fair that I introduce him to some good books as well. At first I was worried that he wouldn't like them (they are from WOMEN'S points of view after all ). But he absolutely LOVED the books! He even wrote me this really sweet letter thanking me for making him read the Sevenwaters books. He said that after he finished CotP, he cried because he felt like he was losing his friends.

And yes, I agree that Red in swoonalicous because he is so GOOD. He is a protector anyone would want!(Not that I need a protector of course, but.......)

I haven't read The Mists of Avalon, but I've always heard they were really good books (aren't they a series?). Too bad the movie sucked. I'm glad I never watched it. I also think that the Sevenwaters books would make AWESOME movies. But only if they were done well and not butchered. I don't I think I would want any actors from LotR in it though. It would be too distracting, imo.

One day I'm going to make another attempt at drawing Bran. I always had such a problem thinking what he looked like, so I decided to draw him. Let's just say it wasn't pretty.
But, I'll try again, and if my skills have improved I'll post it here.

[Misty]

Oh, I´d like to see a drawing of Bran! Would you then choose a model from one the book cover for instance or just draw from your imagination? Maybe I should have a go in drawing Red – stupid thing is, I have no scanner and not a clue about these things in general; I mean, I wanted to post a picture of me ages ago in the other thread and it always said “the picture is too large”, no matter how tiny I made it.
You´re prolly right about LotR actors being distracting ....hehehe.
Your friend sounds very nice!!! I think it´s rather cool for a guy a) to like the books so much and b) to cry when finished!
The Mists of Avalon is a good book ( and yes, they are a series, but I found the other books quite boring), yet it´s much more – hmm – sort of feministic. To me it appears as if the men in general were just like figures in a chess play and the women much greater. I don´t like that attitude because it doesn´t really make sense....not really ! That´s what I love about Marillier´s books, they don´t call you to anything but are encouraging in themselves. I think I can safely say that especially reading about Liadan made me more assertive and straightforward. Liadan is so cool!! Just the way she´s so selfassured and all, in the camp for instance : “I wouldn´t call him Chief”, “Are you going to hit me this time?” I even thought of including the name in my artist´s name (I don´t have one yet, I´m only planning it).
I really like the way magic is described in the books a lot. I´ve always been interested in magic – all those things to do with it fascinate me. Even the two stageplays I adapted from novels have to do with magic. I would REALLY like to believe that it exists, and the way Marillier describes it it seems almost believable.
When I read about Wicca or all sorts of new age witchcraft, it sounds just silly.

[SwiftSnowmane]

Sorry I haven't posted in this thread for so long.....

But yeah, Misty, Liadan is so awesome. If I have any daughters I want to name one after her!

I just read Juliet's new book, Wolfskin! Its soooo good! You should read it if its out yet where you are!

The US cover (the one I have):



The Australian UK cover:



German cover (has a different title, I have no idea why):

[Misty]

Swifty!

Thanks for recommending that - I had lost track of Juliet´s publishings . I´ll go and order that as soon as my brother, who works in a bookstore, gets back from his vacation

I actually like the German cover best, even though I am outraged at the way they butchered the title. I cannot understand why they do that!!! Priestess of the Island? Suuuure, simultaneous fitting translation of "Wolfskin".

So, even if it was ages ago, how about a drawing of Bran? I might have a go too if you are brave enough to post yours, Swifty.

[Misty]

May the mods forgive me for double-posting - but if I just edit the former post, I´d certainly fail to draw Swifty´s attention to this thread.

I´ve just finished reading Wolfskin.
Juliet Marillier really has a style of writing I greatly admire;
even though I was a bit irritated by the drawn-out long beginning. I was even starting to think that writing from a man´s pov wasn´t perhaps such a good idea. But luckily, I was proved wrong.

Somerled is one of those Marillier-baddies per se! Cunningly intelligent, innerly longing for love, but striving for power instead and absolutely losing his way as he gets tangled up in his own bad deeds. Nevertheless he is someone I can´t really feel very sorry for. I was annoyed with him from the moment he pressed young Eyvind to become blood brothers with him.
Also, he has this really, really horrible arrogance which makes some scenes really hard to read, no?
Especially he the way he always makes fun of Eyvind and ridicules him saying he´s not nearly as intelligent as him - and I think it´s great when Nessa says (or maybe she just thinks it to herself) that Eyvind, unlike Somerled, is wise.

I find the Eyvind - Nessa relationship very cute too ,
and the ending is of course great. Leaves you just pondering all the possibilities of the next book !
(I´m quite sure that Somerled will survive and be the father of some children whose second generation will fall in love with one of Nessa´s grandchildren .)

The harp scenery was very close to having me think this very, very fairytale a story; somehow much more so than the swan thing in daughter of the forest.

Nevertheless, I have always loved the Irish folk song There lived a lady by the North Sea shore from which I was familiar with the storyline of the accusing harp made of the bones and hair of the murdered person.

What made me feel absolutely sorry for Eyvind
(oh, and I think it´s so lovely that Nessa calls him "Eyvi" all the time! ) was the trial Somerled gave him, where he really stood no chance against his so-called best friend turning every word he said against him after twisting it thoroughly.

All in all, there are astonishingly few women in this book, compared with all the others! And Nessa is a strong character for sure, but I don´t find in her personality the depth that I considered Liadan to have, or Sorcha, or also Fainne.

That´s all for now - are ye there, Swifty?
Pray give me your opinion .

Oh and btw - the German cover is nice, but I don´t imagine Nessa looking like that. Furthermore, it´s the totally wrong drawing style and also, I think, the clothes are wrong from the time-period pov.

Both the title and the picture on the German book are due to the fact that all of Zimmer-Bradley´s Avalon books are very well sold and read in Germany, and they are put up with drawings like that on the covers and they all have titles like with "priestess" and "island". So, it´s pure merchandising. Sad, really.
Personally, I always read Marillier´s original books so I own the US edition too.

EDIT: Also, Nessa is actually described as having long black hair, so putting a blonde on the German cover makes even less sense !

[SwiftSnowmane]

Hi Misty (and anyone else if they're around ),

I must apologize for never responding! I can't believe I missed you post for so long.... I was incredibly busy this semester, and I must have completely forgotten this thread existed. Now the semester is over (yay!) so I had some time to go fishing in the void.

First, I just have to say that even after all this time, and having read many other books, Juliet Marillier's writing still stands out to me as consistantly good. (so far!) And her stories never fade from my memory, but remain there as if they were my own. I must applaud her for that.

I think I read Wolfskin at least twice if not more, and I really do like it. I just love the tone of her stories, they are all rather bittersweet and full of the same sort of longing. I agree that at first I wasn't sure if I like the idea of the book being from a man's point of view, but I certainly got used to it and thought it was great that she was trying something different. I agree that Nessa wasn't necessarily as fleshed out as some of Marillier's other female characters, but in a sense it was really Eyvind's story anyways. Why is it that I always want to be Marillier's female characters, and I always fall in love with her male characters? LOL
I am really interested to read the next book, "Foxmask." I don't think its going to be a trilogy, like Sevenwaters, just the two books together. I'm impatient to read Foxmask, its been almost a year since Wolfskin was publised (in the US at least). However, the publishing date for Foxmask is not until August 2004.

Oh well, I was hoping to have it earlier so I could read it before I go to the UK this summer! I can't wait!! My sisters and my mother and I are all traveling around England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland this summer. I am so excited because guess where else we are stopping on our trip? The Orkneys, the Light Isles themselves!
One of the reasons I love Juliet Marillier so much is because her style is so real....she makes you believe that all the things in her books could have actually happened, even WITH all the magic. The magic is subtle enough that it seems like it *almost* could be real....*sigh* Which makes going to Ireland and the Orkneys especially exciting.... LOL, I'm going to be looking out for tall, red-haired men, and strangely tattoed outlaws, and incredibly strong blond vikings.....


Edit: Here is the US cover of "Foxmask" It looks rather strange and intriguing.....

[SwiftSnowmane]

Forgive the double posting...

I just went to Juliet Marillier's official site after not visting it for a while, and what do I find? The cover for yet another "magical history" she is writing. I had forgotten that she was writing another book...yay!

Its called "The Dark Mirror," and is the first book in a series (The Bridei Chronicles) set in the kingdom of the Picts. Supposedly its coming some time this year, but I think that means only in Australia....the US probably won't get it for another year....


The Australian Cover

[Blue Banrigh]

A new book, cool. September's not too far away.

Without a doubt, my favourites were Bran and Liadan.

[SwiftSnowmane]

Yay, someone else who has read these!!

I agree, while I adore Sorcha and Red, for some reason the book I have read most is Son of the Shadows. Bran and Liadan's relationship is just so very powerful. Liadan is also one of the strongest characters, imo. If I ever have a daughter, I seriously think I want to name her Liadan.

[Blue Banrigh]

One thing I've never firgured out is how to pronnounce Liadan's sister's name, Niamh (Nee-av?). I'm also sure I haven't gotten Sorcha's name pronnounced correctly either (Saw-sha).

I also had the same problem with Hermione in the Harry Potter series, but then again I think everybody had their own way of saying her name.

[Stardust Greenleaf]

I just started reading the trilogy and so far its pretty good.

[SwiftSnowmane]

YAY!!! Someone else!!

LOL, but don't read the thread till you finish them!

[Stardust Greenleaf]

Too late.....if anything else it wants me to read it even more....

[Misty]

Hi everyone !

I read Wolfskin last September, and it took me a while to get used to the different pov as well. But I liked it pretty well...though no comparison to the trilogy of Sevenwaters.

May I ask something rather funny?
Have any of you girls ever tried reading those love scenes in the books (and I liked the love scenes in every book of J. Marillier I have read so far! Maybe it´s just me) out to guys, or share them with them by giving the books to them?

Most guys just seem to think them boring. I can´t believe men and women are that different. Anyway, "my" guys´ reactions made me unsure myself and I couldn´t explain what I liked about it clearly. What exactly is it that´s so intriguing?
I´d try and explain it like "It´s just soooooooo romantic!", but that´s not really convincing, is it...?

I pronounce "Sorcha" like it´s written, with a Scottish "ch", which is probably very wrong , and "Niamh" Nee-yum, which is prolly also wrong .

[SwiftSnowmane]

Hi Misty!!!

I think the pronunciation guide says "Sur-ha" and "Nee-av." If I remember correctly, in Gaelic the "mh" combination is usually a "v" sound. I pronounced Niamh that way, but my mind just won't let me pronounced Sorcha the "right" way. I say "Sur-sha." heh, oh well

I totally agree about the love scenes. They are beautiful and very tastefully done, IMO.

SPOILER!:

I also love the "almost" love scene in Son of the Shadows, where they are interrupted by a certain someone. Weirdly enough, that's one of my favorite scenes in the whole book....

And you're right, guys just don't understand. Even my one guy friend who I made read the book, while he his a sensitive person and loved the story, I don't think that even he truly appreciated the....exquisite romance that makes the story so beautiful.
Most of my close friends at the moment are guys, so I really wish I could recommend these books to them. However, I think the beauty might be wasted on some of them. LOL, I have such faith in my friends....*sarcasm*
Though....that same friend of mine who read Sevenwaters is now reading Wolfskin, lets hope he enjoys that one too. It has Vikings and killings, might be more appealing....

[Elkay]

Just wanted to pop in and say thank you. I wouldn't have paid attention to this series if it weren't for this thread since the cover of Daughter makes it look like a Marion Zimmer Bradley Mists ripoff. It was an enjoyable read with some incredibly lyrical writing.

[SwiftSnowmane]

I am very glad you enjoyed Daughter of the Forest! I would consider Marillier feminist, but just not in the same sense as Bradley's books. Hrmm....its hard to explain.... I completely agree that her writing is very beautiful, and completely fitting for such an Irish tale.

[Elkay]

re: thinking she was a ripoff of Marion Zimmer Bradley. The publishers used the same artist, which led to an erroneous impression. don't get me wrong, I like MZB. but too many successful writers are followed by poor imitations. Juliet Marillier is not a poor imitation. In fact, I like her better...have now read all four books that are in paperback. each one of the sevenwaters kept getting better. loved liadan, but loved the complexity of Fainne even more and how her love interest was a gypsy instead of a closet noble...
Wolfskin was v. good. But I agree with you, Misty, that Somerled wasn't sympathetic enough. he just seemed plain evil, right down to torturing animals, making you wonder what on earth was tying Eyvand to him...poor guy, what an inferiority complex Somerled gave him....
can't wait til foxmask comes out in pb!

[Blue Banrigh]

Has anyone else read the first book in her new series, The Dark Mirror? It puts me in mind of a King Arthur-esque story.

[SwiftSnowmane]

Sadly, I haven't read The Dark Mirror yet because its not out yet here in the States. ARGH! I want to read it so badly, I might just cave in and order it from Australia since its not coming out in the US until MAY.
I just re-read Wolfskin and I really appreciated it even more this time since over the summer I had visited the Orkneys with my sisters. I also read Foxmask finally for the first time and LOVED it. It was very sad though for some reason to me. I think so far both of the "ending" books (Child of the Prophecy and Foxmask) are just so sad. Maybe that is just an inherent quality of books that are the 'end' (like Return of the King for instance). Or maybe I'm just weird....I dunno.

[Elkay]

oooo, swiftsnowmane. do tell about Foxmask. It's still hardcover and I'm waiting for paperback, or at least, cheeeep version on ebay or half.com....
some of us would be forever in your debt....

[SwiftSnowmane]

Elkay~ I will give an in-depth review when I have more time....at the moment I'm really stressed with school and have an headache. LOL, sounds like a lame excuse, but with Marillier's books I feel like I should give them more attention than only the half-arsed job I could do at the moment....

Though while you're waiting, have you tried any libraries for Foxmask? That might be your best bet....I don't know how I could wait so long to read it!