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PJ's influence over the HP II
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#1
11-16-2002, 05:41 PM
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PJ's influence over the HP II
Minor Spoilers
I saw Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets last night. I noticed one difference in this movie as compared to Harry Potter and the Sorcer's Stone. The movie did a lot of panoramic shots, where the camera would show Hogwarts from the sky, and then zoom into the movie. I never noticed this in the first Harry Potter movie, and it reminded me alot of FotR when the camera zooms in on Isengard and Mordor. I wondered if this may be evidence of PJ's influence already marking its way over other movies, or if it may be just coincidence. Anyway it really stuck out to me when I thought about the lack of this technique in HP 1 and the amount of it in FotR. Maybe there are other techniques or other examples in other movies. I was wondering if anyone else thinks so. Last edited by thengel : 11-16-2002 at 06:02 PM. 
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#2
11-16-2002, 05:57 PM
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I have not seen the new Harry Potter movie (it opens only next weekend here), but IIRC, Chris Columbus began shooting Chamber of Secrets just after The Philosopher's Stone was released, before FOTR made into the cinemas...
With all the production details, and a tight schedule for finishing effects and such, I don't think he could be directly influenced by PJ's style, not in the way of introducing these new camera shots only because they were present in FOTR. These shots were most probably already planned. Of course, PJ's sucess could very well influence some of his decisions, (just look at the poster with Harry and the sword) but IMO it would all come down to a matter of editing or giving more emphasis to certain elements (specially the "darker" ones, as atested by most reviewers)
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PEACE! Last edited by Ither : 11-16-2002 at 06:00 PM.
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#3
11-16-2002, 08:03 PM
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I haven't seen HP2, but I do seem to remember that in HP1 there were a couple of those panoramic shots, one that comes to mind is when the kids are on a staircase and the camera starts way up above them and flys down to meet them.
I think that as a whole there's been a shift in film-making towards more visually appealing movies, and not necessarily caused by PJ.
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#4
11-16-2002, 09:39 PM
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In my opinion, Harry Potter is a copy of Lord of the Rings, so some of the same shots don't worry me!
 
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#5
11-17-2002, 01:59 AM
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Thengel -- you're absolutely right about more panoramic shots of Hogwarts. The school's layout is too big to take in with one shot -- it's now apparent that it's an immense place -- but there are indeed more pans of the castle, and we can see courtyard after courtyard in owl's-eye views.
I am not sure why it was possible to have these shots in HP2, but not in HP1. In general, I think the special effects in HP2 are better than those in HP1. I don't know whether that's a year of technological improvements, more money, a different FX company, or what. But Hogwarts is much better defined, and I like it. Whether this could stem from the influence of PJ is even less clear. If you think about it, there weren't really that many shots of this type in FOTR. The Rivendell shot was stationary, and the Hobbiton sequence hugged the ground. Perhaps the Argonath comes closest? It's possible that FOTR just raised the bar generally. That could explain, in part, Columbus's departure, which I think is an extremely good thing for HP3.
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#6
11-17-2002, 06:35 AM
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Yes, Thengel, I thought exactly the same thing. Whether or not those shots were inspired by FOTR, they were a welcome addition to the film. Beautiful shots that really showed the grandeur of the castle. The whole film was much better than the first although it still couldn't hold a candle to FOTR. I suppose that's what you get when you're story is centered around children. (FTR, the theater was only half full!
 )
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#7
11-17-2002, 07:26 AM
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I guess it's true. We do get a lot more location shots now like the Hogwart's Express chugging down the tracks etc. But I actually thought that the film was a bit too long. I didn't really like the Quidditch match this time around though. I liked the first one better.......
 Did anybody notice......in some scenes, Harry's eyes were blue instead of green!! 
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#8
11-17-2002, 11:23 AM
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i don't know about HP2 (haven't seen it yet) but wasn't movie HP's eyes always blue? (vs the book canon green). blame the actor
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Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady? Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire. Still round the corner there may wait A new road or a secret gate; And though I oft have passed them by, A day will come at last when I Shall take the hidden paths that run West of the Moon, East of the Sun.~ Frodo Baggins; The Grey Havens
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#9
11-17-2002, 10:20 PM
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No, blame the director. He could have just given him contacts (a la Legolas)
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Aurora swims in the ether Emerald fire scars the night sky Amber streams from Sol Are not unlike the waves of the sea Nor the endless horizon of ice ~ Agalloch, "Not Unlike the Waves"
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#10
11-18-2002, 12:11 AM
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is it true that Ian is going to replace Richard Harris in HP???
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"My name is Gambit, and I play for keeps"
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#11
11-24-2002, 05:47 PM
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I also noticed the panoramic and fly-through shots in HP2 and while I agree camera work like this wasn’t completely absent from the first film, it really caught my attention here. Maybe there was more of it, or maybe it was just more dramatic.
This is kind of a small thing, but the Parseltongue bits really reminded me of the ring muttering on in the Black Speech. There was one part where
Anyone else think Malfoy’s dad looks like an older, goth-ier, evil-lawyer version of Legolas? Just me? 'K. Guess it's the hair. Anyway, I think he might just be my new boyfriend…
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#12
11-25-2002, 12:56 PM
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I thought Lucius Malfoy looked like Haldir´s evil twin, actually.
He was brilliant, btw. And Parseltongue sounded Elvish to me, rather than Black Speech. Could anyone else hear Frodo´s Moria NOOOOOO!!! in Harry´s flashback scene HAGRIIIIIID!!! ?
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"One thing you have not found in all your hunting", said Pippin, opening an eye. "And that is brighter wits."
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#13
11-25-2002, 03:04 PM
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well i just saw HP2 last Friday (this is what happens when COE crashes, gives me time to do things i shouldn't even be doing
). i didn't notice any FOTR-like shots in the film, panoramic shots yes, but not the roller-coaster swooping shots FOTR was noted for (which i like btw ). the panoramic shots done for HP2 are employed for hundreds of films, so i didn't think there was any influence of FOTR on HP2.my worry is the other way around. on certain scenes i could've sworn HP2 can be interchangable with TTT. i recall the supposedly spoiler photo of Shelob's lair, well it looks almost exactly like that "portal" Harry and Ron entered when they were going to Aragog. it was uncanny, how the portal looked like onsceen and even how the cobwebs were lain across the threshold. i'm starting to wonder if the Shelob's Lair photo is a fake. also the infamous Osgiliath sewers. now i know Decipher or TCG has confirmed the existence of the sewers on film, but once again the spoiler photo i saw of Frodo and Sam in the sewers can appear to be a very seamless cut & paste version of the HP sewers. of course, the biggest question for this one is, what's a sewer doing in TTT?! btw, Aragog looks animatronic. its not bad but its obviously animatronic (since the other spiders who are CG look better). makes me wish all the more that Shelob was included in TTT, man she would've rocked. edit: oh yeah i definitely agree that Parseltongue sounded like Blackspeech. my sister and i kept joking that Harry might pull out the Ring next
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Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady? Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire. Still round the corner there may wait A new road or a secret gate; And though I oft have passed them by, A day will come at last when I Shall take the hidden paths that run West of the Moon, East of the Sun.~ Frodo Baggins; The Grey Havens Last edited by LadyEowynKenobi : 11-25-2002 at 03:08 PM.
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#15
11-26-2002, 01:43 PM
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nevermind technique
i can't get over the gratuitous nasty old willow tree (with zero character) and giant overkill spiders in HP. i suppose reading the books might clue me in a bit on these things; but they were all rip-off and way out of place in the movie's storyline, as far as i could (or cared to) follow it.
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#16
11-26-2002, 03:17 PM
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I saw Chamber of Secrets a few weeks ago - gotta agree with you about Malfoy/Haldir, Pippin!
swiftsnowmane - I read somewhere that Daniel Radcliffe had tried to wear green contacts but they hurt his eyes so he couldn't wear them. I saw one pic of him (from HP & Philosopher's Stone) and his eyes were a very fake bright green colour - maybe they'd Photoshop'd the picture. Oh the whole, I didn't think the film was that great - but, hey, they showed the TT trailer! Checks the top of the page...22 days to go everyone!
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#17
11-26-2002, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Tapstree, I´m afraid nothing will get me really worked up about HP ripping off bad creatures CGI from FOTR bad creatures CGI. Concerning rip-offs, there´s always this thin line between being inspired by other movies, paying tribute or hommage to the classics of the genre, even parodying them, and ripping them off. I mean, would you accuse PJ of ripping off Hitchcock in the wooded road scene, or Bakshi in the "Proudfeet!" scene? And yet he says that´s where he got his ideas from. Sometimes movies will talk to each other. Books do that, too. And the best sign that something is not intended to be a rip-off is when people admit where they took their inspirations from. And LEK, I wouldn´t worry that anything in the cinematography of TTT would be considered a rip-off of the techniques or imagery they used in HP 2. After all, TTT was shot and wrapped by the time they started filming HP 2. I mean, there are a lot of "parallels" if you really want to call it that, there´s trolls and wizard duels and wise old man with long beards, but still nobody would ever think the LOTR movies aren´t movies in their own right. Sewers or no sewers. (Don´t get me started on those.  )
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"One thing you have not found in all your hunting", said Pippin, opening an eye. "And that is brighter wits."
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#18
11-27-2002, 09:31 AM
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I'm still at a loss as to why people are so upset about sewers in Osgiliath.
How the flippin' H did you think the most advanced civilisation in Middle Earth kept it's city streets clean of...well...sewage? As to the Whomping Willow, it's true importance is only revealed in the next installment.
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#19
11-27-2002, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
My dear Bagginses and Boffins, he began again; and my dear Tooks and Brandybucks, and Grubbs, and Chubbs, and Burrowses, and Hornblowers, and Bolgers, Bracegirdles, Goodbodies, Brockhouses and Proudfoots. 'PROUDFEET!' shouted an elderly hobbit from the back of the pavilion. See? That's Tolkien. Elendil- Harry Potter and LotR have completely different story-lines, they just have the same genre (aka science-fiction/fantasy) plus, LotR is so perfect in every way it is just about impossible for anyone to write fantasy without taking at least one idea from it. LotR is the foundation of the whole genre if you like. And it's true what my drama teacher says- in film or theatre there is no such thing as copying; there is only inspiration, and learning from others. If someone takes your idea you should feel proud that they thought it fit to use in their film. HP and LotR are both fantastic films on their own ground (LotR being better though!) HP is more for younger people, though it is enjoyable for older ones (I'm only 14 so I'm on the line, which is a good place to be!) whereas LotR is darker and more deeply plotted, so it is enjoyable for younger children because of all the action, but older people may appreciate it on a larger scale. I do agree about the Malfoy/Haldir thing though. I've not actually seen HP2 yet, but will no longer be able to watch Lucius with a straight face. We should all just leave directors to do as they will- they both make wonderful movies, so why diss? They both seem quite happy with what the other is doing!
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#20
11-27-2002, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
PJ didn´t mean he stole the scene, just the fact that this rather unimportant but comical line was included in the movie at all, and I think he also meant the cinematography of the shot, the camera perspective. Quote:
Quote:
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Simon, I don´t think anyone at all minds the suggestion that Osgiliath had a well functioning sewage system. We´re just wondering what that has to do with the plot of TTT.
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"One thing you have not found in all your hunting", said Pippin, opening an eye. "And that is brighter wits."
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#21
11-28-2002, 07:38 AM
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Pippin, I realise that. The constant negativity finally got to me and I cracked!
I'd just come from a thread where people were still whinging about the theatrical poster (you know, the "lots of heads" one - "Arwen's too big!" "Where are Merry and Pippin?" "I could have done better". Wound me up no end! Anyhow: I don't really see how an escape through the sewers of Osgiliath ruins/destroys/significantly alters or in any other way damages the plot to TTT. Sewers, big brambles, whatever.
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#22
11-28-2002, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
But LOTR messageboards live in cycles like that, in the second half of each year the purists have their field days, speculating on and worrying about the upcoming movie, and the first half of the next year will be entirely given to enthusiastic gushing about how great the new movie is after all.
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"One thing you have not found in all your hunting", said Pippin, opening an eye. "And that is brighter wits."
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#23
11-28-2002, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
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"When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die."
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#24
11-28-2002, 01:37 PM
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Speaking of, are there any pictures out of Shelob yet? I'm one of those wanting TTT being a complete surprise, but still would like to read someone's comment on them.
Also, are there any pictures of Treebeard and Gollum out yet???? If so, please comment on them below, but, whatever you do, please DON'T POST THE PICTURES! Just a comment will do fine (which maybe can include a brief description of the character, while at the same time not giving away too much).Thanks, Aiwendil
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#25
11-28-2002, 02:04 PM
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No Pics from Shelob so fare since
However there's a pic of her lair around on the net... There are already several Treebeard and Gollum pics out there as well, but I'll leave it to the others to comment on them, since I'm unfortunately in a hurry right now.
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#26
11-28-2002, 02:15 PM
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I´m avoiding spoilers as well so I´m not going to go and look for them, Aiwendil.
But there are Gollum pics as well as a rumour that Gollum will not look like in the brief shots we saw in FOTR, because they hadn´t really figured out Gollum yet back then and there have been modifications after that. Treebeard pics are few as far as I know, mostly of his face, which looks very tree-ish, all bark and twigs and leaves, and friendly round dark eyes. The big question is whether he´ll look ok when he moves. That remains to be seen. (There´s a short shot of just his moving legs in the latest TTT trailer.) The new "Creatures" book by Richard Taylor has a pic of Shelob on the very last page, hardly more than a shadow though. It just looks like a big spiky spider. And someone tell me what that´s got to do with the topic of the thread. Oh yes, maybe people will say Shelob was a Harry Potter 2 rip-off?
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"One thing you have not found in all your hunting", said Pippin, opening an eye. "And that is brighter wits."
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#27
11-28-2002, 04:20 PM
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Pippin, you have made an excellent point about Shelob and the HP spiders. The number of ignorant film critics out there is legion, and I'll bet my bottom dollar that at least one or two will make some sort of comparison, and state that PJ was taking his cues from the HP film.
Can you even imagine these same people's remarks if "The Hobbit" ever gets made?
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"...and in her hand she held a harp, and she sang..." "There, I'll be an orc no more," he cried, "and I'll bear no weapon, fair or foul. Let them take me, if they will!".....Frodo Baggins, from ROTK
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#28
11-29-2002, 12:19 AM
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As someone said, the Whomping Willow and the giant spiders are NOT Tolkien rip-offs. At least in the books (where one can truly witness J.K. Rowling's creativity
) they do not come across this way. The Whomping Willow does have a purpose, which is revealed in the 3rd story. (I still didn't like how it looked in the movie, though... )Harry Potter is no more a rip-off of Tolkien than any other recent fantasies are, perhaps even less so than some I can think of.... Anyway.....I guess I'm just saying that I love them both equally as books, though so far LotR MOVIE has blown HP MOVIE away. I almost wish that there had been MORE copying if it meant the Harry Potter movies would be better. But, as someone also said, it is really completely unfair of me to compare them, as they are totally different categories of stories.For the record.....Lucius was very lucious! 
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Aurora swims in the ether Emerald fire scars the night sky Amber streams from Sol Are not unlike the waves of the sea Nor the endless horizon of ice ~ Agalloch, "Not Unlike the Waves" Last edited by SwiftSnowmane : 11-29-2002 at 01:19 AM.
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#29
11-29-2002, 01:50 AM
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Snowmane, I'd say take it to the MI, but it's seems to be gone forever
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#30
11-29-2002, 03:13 AM
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But the old green HP forums within this board are back up now, at least temporarily, so we can discuss the HP movie there.
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"One thing you have not found in all your hunting", said Pippin, opening an eye. "And that is brighter wits."
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